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Sudden onset schizophrenia diet and supplements
Hi B,
I had a few more questions about vitamins and nutrition after all, making a separate thread as suggested.
There seems to be something called the Walsh protocol that tries to help those suffering from mental illness by looking at deficiencies. They use supplements to lessen symptoms.
This was a very interesting read on their take on the different types of schizohrenia, is there a way to know by testing which type he may have? Link below:
The Walsh Theory of Schizophrenia
My brother seems to have lack of apathy, Catatonic episodes, auditory hallucinations and delusions.
I’ve also come across some information regarding the treatment of a schizophrenia patient done by Dr Abraham Hoffer, came across this while reading stories on reddit for schizophrenia. I’ve pasted it below:
“I was reading Doctor Yourself by Andrew Saul and there is a chapter that is entitled “Schizophrenia and Psychosis” and he discussed how he cured a teenager from Schizophrenia by following the method of Dr Abraham Hoffer who cured a vast numer of psychotic patients with megadoses of niacin and vitamin c in the 1950s. Dr Saul said Dr. Hoffer prescribed 3,000 mg of niacin everyday and 10,000 mg of vitamin c with it.
The kid was a diagnosed case and was so aggressive, wild, and angry that he was kicked out of the mental hospital. He threatened his parents every day. He slept 1 hour a night and would roam the streets for days. His skin was covered in acne and it was scaly.
After two weeks of using niacin and vitamin c the parents called, marvelling at how their son slept 18 hours the first night he took them. He also came down for breakfast and was pleasant and cheerful to his parents.”
- My first question is, is there something that might be a safe option for him that reduces oxidative stress?
- I’ve come across, a number of times, that there may be an excess of copper, and deficiencies in b vitamins, is there a good brand, preferably liquid, for zinc and one for a b complex? ( he only takes vitamins mixed in his morning juice, otherwise he won’t take anything) ( also he seemed to respond well to nutritional yeast a few weeks ago but now won’t take it because of the taste)
- Also I keep seeing people posting online that the effects of l theanine are very short term. Is this true?
Please let me know your thoughts on the Walsh institute link I attached as well as the excerpt regarding treatment done by Dr Hoffer.
And some quick notes below on supplements he currently takes:
- Just started l-theanine, today is day Two
- He’s been Taking one packet cymbiotika vitamin c , will start taking 2 packs
- Takes one packet of cymbiotika magnesium threonate
- Takes jarrow copper and zinc, although we want to switch to just a zinc and see If that sits better after reading some things on excess copper in people with his condition ( are there any symptoms that we can see visually on him that would give us an idea of if he has too much copper in him?)
- Occasional fish oil we put in his food
Were trying to get him well enough where he won’t refuse tests.
Thanks B and everyone at B better.
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4 Replies
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Hey @Annie Sye,
The current view is that Schizophrenia hasn’t one root cause. Genetics, stress & trauma, brain chemistry and structure, heavy metal toxicity, possible drug abuse, and autoimmune activation Several factors seem to play a role. One patient needs a different approach than the other.
To reduce oxidative stress anti-oxidants indeed play an important role. Removing the source of the oxidative stress is just as important. Adding anti-oxidants like vitamin C, vitamin E and glutathione can all help reduce damage to oxidative stress (see this study).
Many schizophrenia patients lack Omega 3s (see this study) and in this case, adding them to the diet with a fish oil supplement can be beneficial. I suspect that in patients, with an inflammatory component, omega 3s will be beneficial as well. Having serum vitamin D levels in the ideal zone (50 ng/ml) will help the body deal with inflammation as well.
Another supplement that has been regularly researched in schizophrenia patients is Ginkgo Biloba. According to this meta-analysis supplementing with Ginkgo Biloba resulted in [and I equate] “moderate improvement in total and negative symptoms of schizophrenia.”
The dosages of supplements used in your example, shouldn’t be taken without an expert who knows him and his personal and medical circumstances, but the presence of oxidative damage makes sense. If in your brother oxidative damage plays a role, removing the source would be the biggest help you could give him. Here are some sources of oxidative stress:
You mentioned mold in your earlier posts. Removing exposure to mold and mold toxins will reduce oxidative stress and inflammation for sure
Heavy metal toxicity can cause oxidative stress. Heavy metals can also impair the ability of the body to produce powerful “homemade” antioxidants like glutathione.
Drugs (abuse) can be a source of oxidative stress
Blood sugar imbalance (we have a full course on that one in the library)
High blood pressure
Poor lifestyle habits like smoking, drinking alcohol, etc
Autoimmune activation
We see more autoimmune diseases in schizophrenia patients. Does your brother have a known autoimmune disease? Then inflammation caused by that could worsen symptoms as well. If this is the case we have a handout right here in the B Better library that you might find interesting. Just scroll down to find the handout.
The article you shared talked about methylation. Some schizophrenia patients overmethylate, and some undermethylate. Without getting into much detail about what methylation is, traditional lab values can help us understand when someone isn’t a good methylator. For example, when the lab value homocysteine is elevated (or when it is too low!), we know that the methylation cycle is impaired.
We need methylation for detoxification, glutathione production and good nerve health.
If your brother’s homocysteine is too high, adding b vitamins like B12, folate and B6 can help. I usually recommend the B vitamin supplement basic b from Thorne since it has the B vitamins in the methylated form. A liquid supplement with all the B vitamins in the right form, I don’t know. But having the right form of the B vitamins matters: some people (1 in 4 people!) have genes that don’t metabolise b12 well for example. This isn’t a problem for everybody, but for some people, it can cause a lot of problems.
One last advice on the B vitamin department: go low & slow with the dosage! Half a capsule per day of Thorne’s basic B is a good starting dose. Vitamin B6 can influence neurotransmitter production like dopamine, GABA, serotonin and glutamate. In schizophrenia patients, imbalances in neurotransmitters like dopamine and glutamate may play a role and some caution is necessary.
Zinc
A liquid zinc supplement that you could try is the chelated zinc of Genestra called “Zinc Glycinate Liquid”. It is attached to the amino acid glycinate which can also have a calming effect. It is also one of the 3 amino acids needed to make Glutathione.L-theanine
The effects of L-theanine are calming on the mind. However, indeed, often people experience this relief for 1-2 hours.One last thought on the article of Walsh you’ve shared. I like what he is writing, but keep in mind: he doesn’t zoom into what the root causes of oxidative stress are. When oxidative stress plays an important role in the disease dynamic, removing the cause of oxidative stress is essential.
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@Daniel Schepers thank you so very much for the information. My uneducated guess is that there might be mold and possible autoimmune at play, but we need to get him well enough/clear headed enough to get him to agree to testing.
You mentioned vitamin e and glutathione, do either cause fluctuations in your neurotransmitters? In an older post I mentioned I wanted to avoid anything that would do that since schizophrenics already have an imbalance in serotonin, dopamine and gaba.
If it doesn’t cause any fluctuations, please recommend a good clean option for vitamin e and glutathione ( although I know cymbiotika has a glutathione and last i checked they’re pretty good).
For th4 vitamin b complex from thorne, thank you for choosing a methylated version, is there another brand that also has that option? Upon checking out in my Amazon cart they gave me a prop 65 warning on this product.
Also, for the liquid zinc recommended , i really appreciate the calming glycinate form, is there however, an option for one without stevia and citric acid ? Pill form is ok.if it’s powder and can be opened and mixed in juice.
Thank you again Daniel really appreciate you and Bernadette, and everyone at B better for your help.
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@Annie Sye I replied to your original post, but copying part of it over here in case you missed it since you’re asking about supplement brands.
As a B Better member, you get access to Fullscript – a practitioner-grade supplement dispensary and 20% discount on their full range. You never know what you’re getting on Amazon. You can create your Fullscript account HERE.
You can then easily browse through the catalogue and filter your search using specific ingredient names, the specific form you need it in, specific brands, etc, to find the best one for your needs. It’s really helpful in finding better quality supplements than what you usually find in health stores and 3rd party online stores.
Hope that helps! Check it out and let us know if you have any questions.
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@Annie Sye reduction in oxidative stress may influence neurotransmitter balance. Schizophrenia is associated with neurodegenrative processes, meaning that the nerve health in time could degenerate. The presence of oxidative stress (and toxins) can contribute to this process. Reducing oxidative stress can slow down the degeneration of nerves.
I’ve chosen to give you some nutrients that in general show positive clinical effects in Schizophrenia patients. Vitamin C can help reduce negative symptoms in schizophrenia patients. I’m quoting this study here for you:
“Baseline symptoms and vitamin C levels were not correlated. Higher baseline vitamin C levels were associated with more improvement in negative symptoms”
It is a small study, but usually small studies are done to see if there is a signal – which they did.
Vitamin E can help with some of the negative effects of medications. The evidence of vitamin E helping with reducing negative symptoms is less strong, but the literature I’ve seen is not talking about worsening of symptoms. In studies in which vitamin E helped, vitamin E was often combined with vitamin C and omega 3s.
I think you could safely try these supplements.
I’m linking you to an interesting page on WebMD as well (just click here)
Proposition 65 warning
Since I’m based in Europe, could you help me with website/list of products in which I could search for which product has a proposition 65 warning? This will make the right choice for supplements easier!
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