-
Results are in for mosaic lab tests. Oat, urine and hair heavy metal
Patient presenting with schizophrenic/ schizoaffective type disorder. Results are finally in and shown below. I’ve been eagerly waiting on these results for my dear brother. Hoping we see something here that will help him.
I want to thank you Bernadette, Daniel, and the entire team. It’s been a tough journey but I truly hope the results below will shed light on his condition and show us a way we can help him. I love him so very much and miss his old self every second, of every day. I hope to see him healthy and happy again, some day soon.
Edit: they mentioned receiving mycotox sample but expected results are around July 13.
-
22 Replies
-
@Annie Sye was your brother taking any supplements before these tests were taken and if so, what were they please?
I’m curious to know about B5 specifically! Please read the result notes on the OAT test about #52 pantothenic acid (B5) being high without supplementation.
If he was not supplementing with a B complex that had high doses of B5, then I think we’ve been given a big clue here.
Also, not having any B6 will contribute to downstream consequences in so many ways; it can negatively affect:
-neurotransmitter production
-our ability to produce bile (which is needed to absorb our fats and detox through stool, as well as being antimicrobial and keeping a balanced gut microbiome)
-our ability to produce glutathione needed for antioxidant function and detoxification.
There are many other functions too but in your brother’s case, I can see how low B6 can be a key contributing factor. If deciding to supplement, it must be done very low and slowly with a gradual build-up over 30 to 60 days.
There’s also a need for other B vitamins, but before I go any further, please let me know about supplement intake if any.
-
@Bernadette Abraham honestly I was really shocked when I read what you’re mentioning. I sent the results minutes after I found out.
I’ve attached the b vitamins he is taking below. I’ve told my mother to immediately stop giving those to him as I see very high B5 in it. However, he had not taken any vitamins for quite a few months prior to his mental break/ episode.
I also noticed a few other things that were high: magnesium, strontium, barium, and creatine.
I couldn’t make out the oat test results in the few mins before I sent them, Im not familiar with any of the things listed.
Please advise what brand and dosage to start with for B6.
His only current medication given by the psychiatrist is olanzapine.
-
Continued
I’ve listed all the supplements he takes usually below:
Pure encapsulations b complex plus
Cymbiotika vitamin c
Cymbiotika magnesium
Pure encapsulations zinc 30
Pure encapsulations melatonin .5 mg
Bronson vitamin d3+k2
Thorne theanineAlso, there was one thing that was elevated and it indicated poor kidney function, as per google search for what it’s worth, wanted to ask you what was going on with that as well. Was a bit concerned to google it and come across that.
Also, my mother has ordered the pure encapsulations P5P 50, a 50 mg doss of B6, is that considered a low dose?
I also noticed a fungal overgrowth mentioned.
If his B5 is high and normally one should excrete excess through urine, why is his so ridiculously high? He takes a b complex and the other b vitamins weren’t shown as being high like his B5 was. I guess, I just have so many questions. Trying my best to read it over and understand better.
Another side note, there isn’t maybe a way to reduce excess b5 in the body? Google says no, but I feel you’ll have a better answer maybe. For now they’ve switched him to a diet that avoids foods with high levels of b5.
Thanks B and Team.
-
Hey @Annie Sye,
With vitamin B6 I usually recommend my clients a low & slow approach since it is involved in the production of neurotransmitters. I also would recommend they to use the biologically available form (pyridoxal 5 phosphate). 50 mg B6, although it has been used, is still quite a lot.
I’m not sure why his current vitamin B5 is elevated. There could be some hidden exposure from food sources. It is for example added to beverages or breakfast cereals sometimes. Reading the labels will give you more insight. In rare cases, pantothenic acid (the scientific name for vitamin B5) can also be metabolized badly. This happens in people who suffer from PKAN (pantothenate kinase-associated neurodegeneration). Although observed levels in the OAT are usually higher in the last case, it’s still worth ruling out in his case since he is suffering from schizophrenia.
Fungal overgrowth
The OAT shows indeed evidence of a fungal overgrowth. Arabinose is also elevated and more indicative for Candida. I’m under the impression you might already know some stuff about this topic, so I’ll keep the advice on this topic brief. Just let me know if you need more information. This video helps you choose botanical antifungals if you consider them an option. This handout could also be of use. The mold & mycotoxin course might give you a deeper dive into all things mold related.Kidney function
Do you know the elevations of this specific marker you refer to? And is this specific marker creatinine by any chance? I’m asking because it might influence how to read the lab reports. -
@Daniel Schepers thanks Daniel. It’s 2 am here but I will look over the results again during the day and get back to you about that specific marker.
Is there a place you recommend or like for genetic testing to rule out PKAN?
He was taking a b complex, 2000% daily recommended amount of b5. Could that cause such a high elevation? However he took this after he got sick a few months ago, he had not been taking anything prior to his episode for quite a few months.
Is there a brand you like for a smaller dose of b6?
-
@Annie Sye,
It would be easier to check if some symptoms he presents remind you of this condition. Symptoms usually present early in life (at the age before 10) or a little later in atypical cases. Symptoms you’re looking for are involuntary muscle movements, speech difficulties, trouble with walking, some people develop vision loss or personality changes. It’s very rare, but since the OAT test showed elevated vitamin B5 and there is evidence that schizophrenia is linked to neurodegeneration I felt like mentioning it.
A high intake of supplements can also cause the elevation of vitamin B5. But if he didn’t take a B5 supplement recently it’s hard to tell if this will show up on the test. I don’t know how long ago this was and how long he took the dose. Vitamin B5 leaves the body quickly, but I have no experience with these dosages. It is however a more common reason for higher levels of B5 in the body.
Vitamin B6 supplement
I often recommend my clients to use B vitamins in a B complex formula. The exception would be vitamin B12. Basic B from Thorne is a product I like. I usually recommend half a capsule per day to start with and see how people feel about that.I hope this information helps you!
-
@Annie Sye no, if it’s been months since he’s supplemented, it’s unlikely that it will affect his result. This is why I asked if he was supplementing because the elevation in B5 is not common, and does warrant further testing since he’s presenting with neurological symptoms.
The OAT test suggests genetic testing at the University of Chicago, but it requires physician referral. Here’s more info on the PANK2 testing: https://dnatesting.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/01PANK2_16.pdf
Interestingly enough, the suggested treatment for PANK2 is high dose B5 to stimulate any residual enzyme with doses as high as 10g per day. Bile salts with fat soluble vitamin supplementation, and high dose lactobacillus probiotics are other suggested supportive therapies. I do not have much experience with this genetic variant to be honest, so it’s definitely something to be discussing with a physician.
Here’s a potentially important connection. Your brother’s vitamin B6 is clinically low. B6 as I had previously explained is needed to produce bile. Bile salts are one of the suggested treatments for PANK2.
B6 is also needed as a cofactor during methylation and production of cysteine, which is needed to produce our potent antioxidant glutathione to protect and detoxify from toxins/heavy metals. Your brother’s NAC is 0. More reasons to support B6, and potentially NAC and vitamin C for antioxidant protection.
Regarding B6 supplementation, starting doses are usually 10mg (but often times much less when starting out by opening up capsules and sprinkling a little bit at a time over food) and can slowly increase up to 100mg to replenish deficient levels. I usually start off clients with a B complex like Thorne’s Basic B for 30-90 days, and then switch it to Thorne’s B Complex #6 for another 30-60 days or more as needed.
-
@Annie Sye I noticed that you did 2 elements tests; one by Doctor’s Data (hair) and another one by Mosaic (urine). Do you have the 1st page and results page of the Mosaic Toxic + Nutrient Elements? It seems to be missing the toxic elements page and result interpretations. Can you please share those if you have them. I’d like to compare the results to the hair mineral test by Doctor’s Data.
Also, in the hair test, barium is high. Has he ever taken a radiographic contrast agent in the past? We need to help him remove this heavy metal. We just released our Heavy Metal Detox program, but it needs to be done from a place of strength. Addressing basic nutrient deficiencies and digestive support needs to be in place first.
-
@Annie Sye to answer your question about potential kidney issues, I believe you’re referring to the higher creatinine level on the Mosaic urine test, correct?
Higher creatinine can be due a high protein diet, dehydration, kidney dysfunction, and possible medications. Is he on any meds? How’s his water intake?
-
@Bernadette Abraham he’s just taking the antipsychotic I mentioned, olanzapine, no other medications.
-
@Bernadette Abraham
Yes, I’ll attach those now along with the mycotoxins results that just came in.No, He’s never taken radiographic contrast. Why are his levels so high? I keep searching and searching online but nothing makes sense to me on why it’s so high.
Yes of course, is it just the b6 deficiency we would address before the heavy metal detox ? And how do we provide digestive support in his case? What would be best? What do we do 🙁
As always thank you for your feedback. It means a lot to me and my family.
-
@Bernadette Abraham the mycotoxins report also mentions low sodium and potassium. So many things are pointing to the kidneys and Im confused whether or not the root cause is the fungus or something else.
-
Also, my husband suggested with and without contrast, CT scans of the head, chest and abdomen. Is there anything my. Brother should do before and after for the contrast?
-
@Annie Sye I’m replying in a new comment to be able to reply to all of your recent questions in one thread, and also to provide a summary of what I suspect is at play so that you can start to take action.
Regarding the MycoTox test and your question about kidney function. I’m not surprised to see Ochratoxin A being high, which matches with the gastrointestinal fungal overgrowth on the OAT test. You had already mentioned that mold was found and he’s still living in the same house. This particular mycotoxin has an affinity for the kidneys, depletes glutathione and reduces neutrophils (a white blood cell), so yes, this mycotoxin may potentially be impacting his kidneys/kidney function.
Fungal overgrowth is also linked to higher oxalate production (also seen in his OAT – oxalic acid #21) which can contribute to kidney stone formation. Drinking lemon water twice daily or taking magnesium citrate daily can help with prevention.
As I had recommended before, the best way to detoxify from mold is to first and foremost avoid it! If moving out is not a possibility at this time, then I recommend Dr. Jill Crista’s course (very affordable and very practical) on things you can do to mitigate the effects of mold while still living there. Use code BBETTER for 10% off.
I would also ask your mom to include a variety of natural antifungal foods into his diet and encourage him to eat those liberally every day. You can find a list of those HERE from the Mold & Mycotoxin Illness course. Ignore the antifungal supplements for now, he’s not ready for that yet.
Regarding his medication and kidney function, Olanzapine is not commonly associated with direct kidney damage. However, it may have an effect indirectly:
Metabolic Effects: Olanzapine can cause weight gain, hyperglycemia (high blood sugar), and dyslipidemia (abnormal lipid levels). These metabolic changes can increase the risk of diabetes and cardiovascular disease, which can, in turn, affect kidney function over time.
Electrolyte Imbalances: Olanzapine can sometimes cause electrolyte imbalances (which we can see from his nutrient elements test), which can affect kidney function. Monitoring his electrolytes in blood is recommended if it’s not already being done.
Dehydration: Some patients on olanzapine may experience side effects like excessive sedation or reduced fluid intake, potentially leading to dehydration, which can affect kidney function.
Therefore, if you’d like to pursue testing, you can ask for blood sugar status (fasting glucose, fasting insulin, HbA1c) and electrolytes (sodium, potassium, chloride, CO2, calcium, RBC magnesium) to see if potassium and magnesium may need to be supported with supplements.
I previously mentioned the low B6 and its importance for neurotransmitter, bile and glutathione production & detoxification. This can be provided in a B complex such as Thorne’s Basic B, and then later on switch to a higher dose of B6 as in Thorne’s B Complex #6.
In addition, selenium and NAC are both low and are both antioxidants needed for glutathione production. Consuming 3-4 organic Brazil nuts per day and/or sardines with skin on are good food sources of selenium. In supplement form, 200mcg of selenium per day is what’s typically recommended.
If he’s not consuming enough protein, please encourage him to do so with each meal to help bring on board more cysteine. Otherwise supplementing with NAC can help the body with glutathione production. Phase 2 liver detox is dependent on proteins, so it’s important that he’s consuming enough protein.
Another antioxidant that was found low on the OAT test is Vitamin C. Either his diet needs to be improved (more fruits, vegetables, proteins, healthy fats) or his body is fighting a lot of oxidative stress and is using up his antioxidant resources to protect him (i.e. selenium, NAC/glutathione, melatonin, etc). This is not uncommon in people affected by mold.
Seeing that B5 was significantly higher than the RR on the OAT test, I would also want to rule out or confirm this genetic component.
To answer your question about the possible root cause(s), I see a few at play based on the tests:
Mold & mycotoxin exposure leading to high oxidative stress, fungal overgrowth (and higher oxalate production which can affect kidneys) and compromised detoxification ability. Potentially compromised immunity as well (white blood cells) – can do a CBC to check.
Elevated heavy metal contributing to more oxidative stress
Nutrient deficiencies affecting methylation (DNA protection, detoxification, etc), neurotransmitter production, bile (needed for detox), and glutathione (antioxidant & detox)
Possible genetic variant affecting his ability to breakdown B5 which in mild cases, can lead to schizoaffective disorder. Since bile is a suggested treatment, and bile is also important for overall detoxification, supporting bile production and flow will be key.
Where to start? Let’s put it all together:
Consider pursuing additional blood tests:
Genetic PANK2 test
Blood sugar & electrolytes
CBC & CMP including renal panel
Vitamin D
I wouldn’t want to expose him to any contrast agents if pursuing scans. He’s already struggling with detox & toxin overload.
Avoid mold exposure:
Order Dr. Jill’s course for practical tips (i.e. ultra hepa air filters, opening windows, dietary advice, etc.)
Open drainage pathways:
Have him fill out this elimination pathway self-assessment. Whatever pathway is more than 2 needs support.
Please watch THIS video in mold & mycotoxin illness course for ways to support each pathway. Supporting bile as I mentioned earlier is very important in his case specifically. I share additional recommendations for liver/gallbladder support HERE from the Gut Health Masterclass course.
Support mitochondria:
Oxidative stress from mold & heavy metals affects mitochondrial function. Our mitochondria power up every cell in our body.
Please watch THIS video in mold & mycotoxin illness course for ways to support mitochondria.
Strengthen his defenses against oxidative stress:
Boost antioxidants. I encourage you to watch THIS video from the mold course for more information on antioxidants and their dosages. In his case, NAC, selenium and vitamin C were all low – consider supplementing to boost levels. I would avoid glutathione while still living in mold. High dose melatonin as discussed in previous threads can be helpful.
Boost vitamin D (test first) and high dose omega-3 fatty acids (3g) can be helpful given his mold exposure. I share more about that with supplement suggestions HERE in the mold course.
Support nutrient deficiencies:
Test electrolytes and RBC magnesium. Support accordingly based on test results.
Support Gut Health & Microbiome:
Mycotoxins and fungal overgrowths can wreak havoc on the gut lining and gut immunity. My favorite combo formula is Design’s for Health GI Revive. For food based gut healing therapies, watch THIS video.
While still living in mold, Dr. Jill recommends a spore based probiotic to help provide a better balance in the gut microbiome. For example, MegasporeBiotics.
Support detoxification:
Ensure he’s eating enough protein/amino acids with each meal (min. 30g of protein)
Support with B vitamins as discussed above and/or a combo detox support supplement like Integrative Therapeutics Detoxification Factors + additional vitamin B6 given the low levels.
Ensure he’s sweating daily through exercise. If he can’t sweat, consider sauna therapy (if OK by his doctor). I like Therasage’s portable saunas as it keeps the head out which prevents the head from overheating. Code BERN10 for 10% discount.
Gentle antifungal support (through food):
As I mentioned earlier, he can begin “killing” using food therapy by consuming more antifungal foods. I would not recommend an antifungal cleanse at this stage. He needs to be stronger first.
Follow a fungal/yeast elimination diet (foods to avoid/include) HERE.
Given the higher oxalic acid level on the OAT, lemon water twice daily and/or magnesium citrate can be helpful in preventing kidney stones. Avoid high oxalate foods temporarily.
Ok – I hope this is not too overwhelming, but instead provides a framework that ties all of the pieces together. At the beginning of THIS video, I share what a customized protocol looks like. That might make it easier for you to visualize a plan for him.
We’re here if you have any other questions. I hope this helps give you a better sense of direction of what to do next. Lots of things to do in parallel, but I hope you understand the reasoning behind it all.
-
@Annie Sye replied below in a new comment thread
Log in to reply.
