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  • Trouble sleeping

    Posted by ivona_n on November 11, 2022 at 11:18 am
    Hi,

    I’ve been having trouble staying asleep and trouble getting more than 5 hours of sleep. I don’t drink caffeine but lately have been drinking kombucha for the probiotics. I usually finish it by 1pm. Regardless, I’ve been having trouble staying asleep before I started kombucha. I already take magnesium glycate at night but now I need to take melatonin 5-10 mg at night. Still can’t get more than 5 hours. I don’t sleep anywhere near the wifi and I have my phone on airplane mode on my nightstand. I’m not perfect and will be in my phone before bed if I don’t feel like reading, but that was never an issue. It has a blue light feature that turns off blue light after 9pm as well. I stop eating by 4/5pm and am in bed by 9pm and will usually fall asleep by 10pm. Is there anything else I can take to help me stay asleep longer? I’m considering get medicated for it because I can’t take being sleep deprived anymore. Thank you. 

    cayodialysis replied 1 year, 12 months ago 5 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • Daniel

    Member
    November 11, 2022 at 7:35 pm

    Hey ,

    First of all, great lifestyle choices by not drinking caffeine and trying supplements instead of medications!

    Unfortunately having the focus on improving sleep can itself be a root cause for not falling asleep.

    Here are some things that might help lower anxiety & help you fall asleep (and stay asleep!):

    Kombucha
    Kombucha can be a source of caffeine. This is because the tea leaves used to make kombucha contain caffeine. How much caffeine is in kombucha can depend on different factors: the amount of time the kombucha was fermenting, but also how much caffeine was added to the blend. Try a few days without and see if this helps.

    Other sources of caffeine are indeed tea. If this is something you consume I would try some herbal teas without caffeine. Chamomile, lemon balm, passionflower and magnolia bark are for example herbs that can work calming and help you fall faster asleep as well.

    Magnolia bark has honokiol which has been shown to reduce the time it takes to fall asleep by binding to GABA receptors (click here). Like chamomile, passionflower contains certain flavonoids that bind to the same receptors in the brain as benzodiazepines and may help reduce symptoms of anxiety (click here).

    Food
    Too much food, directly before you go to sleep is indeed not a good idea for sleep quality. But sometimes taking dinner too far away from your sleep can make you wake up early as well. Perhaps experimenting with a little snack 3 hours before bed can help you stay asleep longer.

    Melatonin
    Stress hormones can often interfere with melatonin production. Besides sleep, are there other sources of stress at play? Stress hormones can also rise by pain, inflammation, medications (like prednisone or other corticosteroids) or aggressive workouts.

    Melatonin is made from tryptophan which under the influence of an enzyme (tryptophan hydroxylase) turns eventually into 5-HTP, then serotonin and melatonin. The production of tryptophan hydroxylase is influenced by estrogen (so female hormones can interfere with sleep as well). Serotonin production in the brain is influenced by vitamin D and also needs vitamin B6. Making sure you have enough of these nutrients in your diet is helpful as well.

    Melatonin can help you fall asleep, but the body produces about 0.5-0.8 mg in puberty to fall asleep. When we are adults, the body produces even less melatonin: 0.3 mg. Although most supplements contain much more melatonin, we usually don’t need that much.

    Do lower melatonin dosages not work? Perhaps you could try a combination of melatonin (a lower dose) and 5-HTP. 5-HTP is the precursor of melatonin and can help you stay asleep longer.

    L-Theanine
    L-theanine can help increase the calming neurotransmitter GABA in the brain and lower anxiety – for example, induced by the desire to fall asleep. It is in tea, but there can also be caffeine in tea. A supplement can be a convenient option. Usually, L-theanine works quite quickly.

    Adaptogens
    Night-time intake of calming adaptogenic herbs can often be helpful (e.g. holy basil, ashwagandha, magnolia). Personally, I have had great success with ashwagandha KSM-66. For stronger supplement blends, I have used stress complex from Klaire labs (click here to find this product in fullscript – the supplement store we have in B Better)

  • Bernadette

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 5:51 am

     I agree with Daniel’s recommendations and would also like to add a few more insights to consider:

    -Sun exposure & grounding: These 2 very basic tips are very powerful. How much time do you spend outside during the day? I always recommend getting outside within 20 minutes of rising to help reset the circadian rhythm. I discuss this morning tip in more detail inside the Sleep pillar video here. Getting outside at different times of the day for your eyes to get exposed to the different colors of the sun will also help with melatonin production at night. 

    -Low progesterone: may I ask your age? If peri-menopausal (40-50), progesterone is needed to potentiate GABA (our calming neurotransmitter) and can lead to interrupted sleep around 2-4am. If this resonates with you, have you ever checked your sex hormones? Progesterone is best measured in the luteal phase (days 19-21).

    -Aggressive Cortisol Awakening Response: you didn’t mention what time you wake-up, but if you’re waking between 4 and 5am, it could be due to an aggressive cortisol response (perhaps from a histamine reaction from Kombucha?). Cortisol is naturally supposed to be highest in the morning, but for many different reasons (anticipatory stress perhaps?), there could be an early aggressive response. Have you ever measured your cortisol levels? If this resonates with you, a DUTCH adrenal test could help us see your cortisol production and rhythm throughout the day and night. Phosphatidyl serine taken in the evenings before bed (600mg) could help bring down high cortisol for rapid relief. If stress is indeed at play, a combo formula with calming adaptogenic herbs like Cortisol Manager could also help.

    -Sleep apnea: do you know if you snore at night? Do you sleep with your mouth open? This can always develop later in life for various reasons but is something to consider for interrupted sleep. A simple way to see if this is the case is by trying mouth taping. Somnifix is a brand you can look into getting or simply try a DIY version using 3M tape placed vertically across your lips (from your nose to your chin) to keep them shut.

    And as Daniel explained above, it could be as simple as a low blood sugar response from early fasting since you have an early dinner. A trial with slices of apple and nut butter, or a tablespoon of coconut oil and honey, or even a nice chunk of grassfed butter before bed could help you stay asleep longer.

    I suggest you trial the easiest recommendations first and then progress to the more esoteric options to see what helps you:

    0. Sun exposure within 20 mins & grounding throughout the day
    1. Snack before bed for at least 3 days (try different options)
    2. Stop kombucha for at least a week (possibly the caffeine or histamine?)
    3. Calming herbal teas – can be mixed (chamomile, lemon balm, passionflower and magnolia bark)
    4. Mouth taping
    5. 5-HTP (50-200mg is what’s been helpful in clients) 30-45 mins before bed
    6. L-theanine to increase GABA
    7. Phosphatidyl serine to reduce early morning aggressive cortisol or Cortisol Manager (which has adaptogenic herbs)
    8. Get progesterone levels checked with OBGYN

    There are also other more esoteric reasons that we can explore if the above steps don’t help but please try the above tips and report back what does and doesn’t work.

    Hope we can get you sleeping longer soon! I’ve been through it and can empathize… 

  • cayodialysis

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 11:56 am

    Hi,
    Am having this same issue, unable to stay asleep for more than 7, 8 hours

  • Daniel

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 5:34 pm

     Do you feel not rested after 7-8 hours of sleep? Do you feel you are a light sleeper? Or do you wake up in the middle of the night and can’t sleep continuously?

    I will link here some excellent videos giving you tips on sleep hygiëne and your bedroom. You can find the videos here, here, here & here.

    If you have trouble falling asleep because your mind seems to be too active in the evening you could try herbal teas or l-theanine. Of course, avoiding stimulating activities in the evening will help as well.

    If you are waking up several times in the middle of the night 5-HTP could help. Try the dosages Bernadette is mentioning.

    Magnesium glycinate can help you sleep deeper (if you are constipated, use magnesium citrate instead). Together with Ashwaganda (make sure it says KSM-66 on the label) it can help you sleep even better.

  • mishaakhan1999

    Member
    November 16, 2022 at 9:29 pm

     What time and dose would you recommend taking L-theanine? 

  • Bernadette

    Member
    November 17, 2022 at 11:40 am

    Hi  – I’ve found 200-400mg (sometimes 600mg) of l-theanine to be helpful for sleep when taken in the evenings

  • ivona_n

    Member
    November 17, 2022 at 12:23 pm

     I am 32 female. Im not sure if I ever checked my hormones. I just know I corrected a very very minor thyroid result that was too low according to a holistic doctor in 2020. 

    So I tried the basic recommendations: no kombucha, chamomile tea at around 7pm, eating until 5:30pm instead of 4pm. I am getting more sleep I think… I feel a little more relaxed when sleeping and waking up anyways. however, I could try more of your recommendations because I still wake up between 11pm-1:30am to use the bathroom and again sometimes at 3-5am if I’m not tired enough I take another melatonin at that time but Im not up because I need to use the bathroom. 

    Sleep apnea: I don’t believe I snore. I don’t have a sore throat when I wake up. 

    Grounding: when the weather was nice I took a walk before the sun came up for an hour and I would have some windows open in my house. If I had errands I would be outside, otherwise I sit inside the house all day since I work from home. I also wake up first thing in the morning around 5-6am to work on the computer. I wear blue light glasses though. Not sure if that has anything to do with me waking up between 4-6am and ready to go. 

  • Bernadette

    Member
    November 18, 2022 at 11:01 am

     glad to hear you’re seeing a little progress with eating later and removing the kombucha. But yes, please keep trying the recommendations down the list. Even though the supplement suggestions are for rapid relief, if it works, they can help us figure out what is lacking so we can get to the root cause and address it.

    I would also absolutely make an effort to get outside before starting your day on the computer. It doesn’t have to be for long. Just enough to let your eyes and brain see the color of the sunrise to help reset the circadian rhythm. And get outside a few other times throughout the day weather permitting for breaks as well. It really does make a difference – even if you wear orange blockers on at night.

    The more direct sunlight exposure you can get in a day (& connecting with the Earth), the more melatonin you will produce at night.

    Waking between 11pm and 1:30am can point to blood sugar dysregulation and hypoglycemic reactions creating an “emergency” response and causing the adrenal to fire adrenaline. Again, trying to have a snack right before bed like coconut oil/honey or apple/nut  butter can help us see if that might be at play.

    I also just want to throw this out here… frequent waking during the night to urinate can be a sign of mold illness. Does this possibility resonate with you?

    Please keep us posted.

  • cayodialysis

    Member
    November 18, 2022 at 11:08 am

    Hi good morning,
    Thanks a lot for all the info and suggestions provided.
    I will try the suggestions.

    Warmest Regards 

    Ingrid 

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