Daniel
Forum Replies Created
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Hey @Nathalie Khoury,
Welcome to the community! I hope you will enjoy it here. My name is Daniel and I help Bernadette answering questions. There is a lot of educational material here. If you seek some guidance on where to find content, let us know!
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Hey @Annie Sye,
It’s hard to judge Hoffer’s train of thought. However, I can tell that I wouldn’t recommend trying out some of these dosages of supplements yourself.
Dosing supplements & why it is hard to recommend protocols
The upper tolerable limit for Selenium, for example, is 400 mcg. Above these dosages, people can experience symptoms. I can imagine that supplementing with higher dosages can be considered if someone is deficient in selenium. But you will need to know for sure if you’re considering these dosages.
The same story for vitamin B6: 1000 mg of vitamin B6 is not without risk. Even much lower dosages aren’t without risk. High dosages of vitamin B6 can cause irriversible nerve damage. Vitamin B6 is also necessary for neurotransmitter production. Since Schizophrenia is a disease in which neurotransmitter imbalances are often documented, high dosages of B6 can influence that balance. Especially because with Schizophrenia glutamate imbalances play often a role, adding vitamin B6 could worsen that imbalance.
Don’t get me wrong: I think vitamin B6 can be a good supplement, but start low and slow with the dosage and I see many potential benefits. Still, with my clients I would always recommend the low & slow approach (5mg daily for example). We know that people with glutamate imbalances can experience anxiety, irritability and restlessness when B6 supplements are used.
As a rule of thumb, in functional medicine we first like to know:
What possible systems in the body are out of balance? Do we have labs? What other symptoms are there?
Based on that we make recommendations on lifestyle, nutrition and supplements.
Let me give you an example: if someone can’t methylate well (which we see regurlary in Schizophrenia patients), nutrient deficiencies in vitamin B12, folate, B6 or B2 can play a role. If someone is deficient in B12 only, methylation could be impaired. Supplementing with B6 or folate won’t help.
This is where labs play a role: we first need to know what might be at play in this person to make recommendations.
Are there perhaps labs you could share with us? If so, we could help you by giving you more targeted advice.
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Hey @Rhondine sorrell,
If the implants look like they were leaking, I think you made the right call. I’m not sure how long your implants were there (if they are there for a long time then the next advice might not apply and you can just scroll down). Sometimes Botox is used to help implement implants. But Botox in some cases can also cause some symptoms:
Fever
superficial reddening of the skin
bruising
swelling
drooping eyelid or brow
other skin discolourations
If your doctor believes there is a possibility these symptoms might have been caused by removing the implants causing the Botox to release in the body, the antibiotics won’t work.
Then again, it could also be a simple fever – and in that case, antibiotics won’t work either. In that case, go down to the section called “immune support”
Post-surgery:
Post surgery there are some steps you could take to help heal the body. You can find them in this handout.Detoxification:
You mentioned that your implants looked leaky. If you want to help your body detoxify you can. In your specific case, I would recommend starting with a food-based approach. Ramping up detoxification should be done from a place of strength. When toxins are broken down by the liver, the intermediate metabolites are often more toxic than the toxins. Supporting the body with supplements that ramp up detoxification can cause more harm.However, you can still support your body. Take time to heal. Drink plenty of water, and make sure you aren’t constipated. The liver dumps bile in the stool. This helps you to get rid of waste products in your body. You should have at least one bowel movement per day.
If you aren’t constipated, you can go to the next step: choose the right foods! This handout helps you make targeted choices to support your liver and liver health.
Another way to support your body with detoxification is by eating Cruciferous Vegetables. You can find a list in the handout called Cruciferous Vegetables Natural Detoxifiers.
The third and last handout provides you with a list of foods containing glutathione. Glutathione is a powerful antioxidant made inside your body. It is also crucial for detoxification.
Immune support
If the doctor believes your body might have been weakened by the operation and because of that, your body is more susceptible to infections, you could help your body by supporting your immune system. In that case, this handout would be interesting to read. You will find the nutrients that your body needs to support the immune system at the end of the handout. With fever, you can also look here for tips.Antibiotics
If for some reason antibiotics are recommended… we sometimes need these interventions unfortunately. That doesn’t mean we can’t support the body. You can find how to support the body before, during and after antibiotics right here.I hope you have enough information to make educated choices. Please let us know how things develop!
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@Annie Sye reduction in oxidative stress may influence neurotransmitter balance. Schizophrenia is associated with neurodegenrative processes, meaning that the nerve health in time could degenerate. The presence of oxidative stress (and toxins) can contribute to this process. Reducing oxidative stress can slow down the degeneration of nerves.
I’ve chosen to give you some nutrients that in general show positive clinical effects in Schizophrenia patients. Vitamin C can help reduce negative symptoms in schizophrenia patients. I’m quoting this study here for you:
“Baseline symptoms and vitamin C levels were not correlated. Higher baseline vitamin C levels were associated with more improvement in negative symptoms”
It is a small study, but usually small studies are done to see if there is a signal – which they did.
Vitamin E can help with some of the negative effects of medications. The evidence of vitamin E helping with reducing negative symptoms is less strong, but the literature I’ve seen is not talking about worsening of symptoms. In studies in which vitamin E helped, vitamin E was often combined with vitamin C and omega 3s.
I think you could safely try these supplements.
I’m linking you to an interesting page on WebMD as well (just click here)
Proposition 65 warning
Since I’m based in Europe, could you help me with website/list of products in which I could search for which product has a proposition 65 warning? This will make the right choice for supplements easier! -
Hey @KK
I’m so sorry to hear. I can imagine you are quite worried!
Elevations in CK can be expected as a result of working out. Strong elevations and dark urine can be an indication of Rhabdomyolysis. Usually, I would expect these symptoms as a result of extreme workouts or prolonged strenuous efforts. Other symptoms that might present are:
Muscle swelling
Weak muscles
Tender and sore muscles
and of course brown, red or tea-colored pee
Rhabdomyolysis
I don’t know what kind of strength training your son did, but it is more usual to see this type of health problem with marathon runners or other sports that require prolonged effort.
With Rhabdomyolysis caused by intensive workouts, your son needs to stay hydrated and replenish electrolytes daily. Also, a journal of symptoms might help. Worsening of symptoms like vomiting, abdominal pain, fever, swollen feet, weak muscles and sore muscles could indicate a progression of the condition. If symptoms become progressive, contact your nephrologist immediately! The good news is that your nephrologist thinks of a mild version of Rhabdomyolysis indicating your son isn’t in immediate danger. But I do recommend that he check his symptoms.
Although workouts can cause Rhabdomyolysis and perhaps the most likely, it isn’t the only cause of Rhabdomyolysis. Depending on the cause, different approaches should be taken,
Kidney function
At the moment of drawing blood, the lab values that evaluate kidney function look pretty good. This means that if there is some kidney damage, the damage isn’t enough to impair kidney function. That’s good news! That doesn’t mean there isn’t any kidney damage, but it does mean that the damage didn’t result in function loss. This was at the time of measurement (4 days after the first symptoms presented). It could be that your nephrologist might want to retest these lab values, just to be sure his kidney function is still ok.Pus cells
Although his white blood cell differential doesn’t immediately give an indication of an infection, pus cells were found in the urine. Pus cells in the urine mean that there were some white blood cells present in the urine. Sometimes the urine will smell like ammonia. This would fit more with a UTI. Although UTIs are the most common cause of pus cells in the urine, some other infections can cause pus cells as well. Your nephrologist will know how to deal with that.In the case of an infection, staying hydrated is really important as well. If your son is sexually active, you could recommend him to pee directly after sex to clear bacteria from the urinary tract. I’m not sure what herbal remedies you’ve used, but following the tips in this handout can be helpful as well.
Once it is clear what caused the dark urine, we might be able to give you more targeted advice.
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Hey @Annie Sye,
The current view is that Schizophrenia hasn’t one root cause. Genetics, stress & trauma, brain chemistry and structure, heavy metal toxicity, possible drug abuse, and autoimmune activation Several factors seem to play a role. One patient needs a different approach than the other.
To reduce oxidative stress anti-oxidants indeed play an important role. Removing the source of the oxidative stress is just as important. Adding anti-oxidants like vitamin C, vitamin E and glutathione can all help reduce damage to oxidative stress (see this study).
Many schizophrenia patients lack Omega 3s (see this study) and in this case, adding them to the diet with a fish oil supplement can be beneficial. I suspect that in patients, with an inflammatory component, omega 3s will be beneficial as well. Having serum vitamin D levels in the ideal zone (50 ng/ml) will help the body deal with inflammation as well.
Another supplement that has been regularly researched in schizophrenia patients is Ginkgo Biloba. According to this meta-analysis supplementing with Ginkgo Biloba resulted in [and I equate] “moderate improvement in total and negative symptoms of schizophrenia.”
The dosages of supplements used in your example, shouldn’t be taken without an expert who knows him and his personal and medical circumstances, but the presence of oxidative damage makes sense. If in your brother oxidative damage plays a role, removing the source would be the biggest help you could give him. Here are some sources of oxidative stress:
You mentioned mold in your earlier posts. Removing exposure to mold and mold toxins will reduce oxidative stress and inflammation for sure
Heavy metal toxicity can cause oxidative stress. Heavy metals can also impair the ability of the body to produce powerful “homemade” antioxidants like glutathione.
Drugs (abuse) can be a source of oxidative stress
Blood sugar imbalance (we have a full course on that one in the library)
High blood pressure
Poor lifestyle habits like smoking, drinking alcohol, etc
Autoimmune activation
We see more autoimmune diseases in schizophrenia patients. Does your brother have a known autoimmune disease? Then inflammation caused by that could worsen symptoms as well. If this is the case we have a handout right here in the B Better library that you might find interesting. Just scroll down to find the handout.
The article you shared talked about methylation. Some schizophrenia patients overmethylate, and some undermethylate. Without getting into much detail about what methylation is, traditional lab values can help us understand when someone isn’t a good methylator. For example, when the lab value homocysteine is elevated (or when it is too low!), we know that the methylation cycle is impaired.
We need methylation for detoxification, glutathione production and good nerve health.
If your brother’s homocysteine is too high, adding b vitamins like B12, folate and B6 can help. I usually recommend the B vitamin supplement basic b from Thorne since it has the B vitamins in the methylated form. A liquid supplement with all the B vitamins in the right form, I don’t know. But having the right form of the B vitamins matters: some people (1 in 4 people!) have genes that don’t metabolise b12 well for example. This isn’t a problem for everybody, but for some people, it can cause a lot of problems.
One last advice on the B vitamin department: go low & slow with the dosage! Half a capsule per day of Thorne’s basic B is a good starting dose. Vitamin B6 can influence neurotransmitter production like dopamine, GABA, serotonin and glutamate. In schizophrenia patients, imbalances in neurotransmitters like dopamine and glutamate may play a role and some caution is necessary.
Zinc
A liquid zinc supplement that you could try is the chelated zinc of Genestra called “Zinc Glycinate Liquid”. It is attached to the amino acid glycinate which can also have a calming effect. It is also one of the 3 amino acids needed to make Glutathione.L-theanine
The effects of L-theanine are calming on the mind. However, indeed, often people experience this relief for 1-2 hours.One last thought on the article of Walsh you’ve shared. I like what he is writing, but keep in mind: he doesn’t zoom into what the root causes of oxidative stress are. When oxidative stress plays an important role in the disease dynamic, removing the cause of oxidative stress is essential.
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Hey @Annie Sye,
Mold exposure can cause a variety of symptoms including neurological symptoms(if you like to learn more, watch this video). Traditional labpanels unfortunately aren’t helpful when it comes to mold exposure. There are things I could recommend you though.
Don’t try to remove mold yourself… please! Removing mold needs to be done by an expert and an expert only!
Until that time, make sure you reduce exposure by ventilating the room. Open the windows as often as you can.
If your brother experiences fewer symptoms when he is on vacation, this could indicate something he is exposed to in his normal environment (like mold) is contributing to his symptoms, however…
… in the case of mold, spores could have been seeded in his body. In this case, when he is on vacation, symptoms might not get less because mold can colonize your body (for example in the gut).
Testing for mold can be done by different types of tests. The OAT (Organic Acid Test) for example is such a test. The MycoTox test is a different test which tests for toxins produced by mold. Both tests have their pros and cons which are discussed here.
Other forms of toxicity might also contribute to neurological problems. Amalgam fillings for example contain mercury, which could cause neurological symptoms. If your brother has them, removing them would be advised. You’ll need to find a dentist who is specialized in removing mercury fillings.
Exposure to lead has also been connected to Schizophrenia (see this study for information about lead exposure). If he lives in an old house with old water pipes, depending on where you live in the world, these pipes could contain lead. Old paint can contain lead as well. Although most new paints don’t contain lead anymore, in some countries adding lead to paint is still not forbidden. If your brother likes to paint, you could recommend him to switch paint brands as well.
If you’ve got some old labs from your brother and if he doesn’t mind, you can post them on the forum as well. We might be able to take a look and provide you with some additional advice as well. Looking through the lens of functional medicine to these labs might provide you with new insights.
Since you know your brother is exposed to mold you might find the course in the B Better library interesting. You can find the complete course here.
I hope this helps
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Hey @Annie Sye,
Welcome to the community!n Your brother is very lucky with such a carring sister. My name is Daniel and I help Bernadette on the platform.
There is a lot of content in the library. Take your time to look around and if you have any questions… feel free to reach out!
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Hey @Bahareh Safapour,
Too bad I can’t be with the Q&A call. Perhaps you’ve already discussed these values today with Bernadette – they are interesting. What stands out to me is that, compared to earlier values, estrogen and testosterone are elevated, while the amount of progesterone is less.
These numbers need to be put into context with possible symptoms, your lifestyle and the supplements you’re taking. Since I’m missing context, I will just focus on the numbers
Production of progesterone is lower than the older values. This can happen in stressful times. In the years before menopause progesterone production naturally declines as well.
A supplement like DHEA is a precursor to other hormones. But how hormones are affected, depends. DHEA can increase progesterone indirectly according to studies (see for example this study here). But it can also follow a different route and become first testosterone and after that estradiol.
Since your estrogen and testosterone values are higher than older values, DHEA is likely pushing these numbers up.
Your estradiol levels are above the normal range here. Are you experiencing complaints? In this case, lowering DHEA might help.
I’ll be looking forward to the replay, but meanwhile, I hope this information is of value.
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Hey @Yasmin atassi,
The standards for testing can differ from country to country. You could test for lead, but knowing what risk factors for lead exposure there are is also important. Here are some risk factors you might like to know:
living or spending time in a house or building built before lead was banned from construction in the country you’re living in (1978 for the US. I’m not sure when this was in the UAE)
living or spending time with someone who works with lead or has hobbies that expose them to lead (Specific hobbies like making came glasswork, shooting with lead bullets)
Paint: Although in a lot of countries lead is forbidden in paints, in some countries lead is still added to paint for indoor use. Removing old paint can therefore be a risk factor as well
Unfortunately, lead has been used in products in the past. As a consequence, it has ended up in the environment. Some grounds can be polluted with lead. If your kid is playing in the sand, make sure it is a clean source.
Drinking water out of old leaden water pipes.
A test for heavy metals I would recommend to my clients is the Mosaic Metals – Toxic + Nutrient Elements Red Blood Cell. Mosaic also provides a hair test to look for heavy metals which is less invasive. You can find the hair test here.
Since I’m living in The Netherlands, maybe @Bernadette Abraham knows an integrative pediatrician in Dubai she would recommend.
I hope this answer helps!
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I love the discussion that this news item starts. I love the argument from the GP in this movie. She says that a B12 deficiency can present in so many ways that it’s hard to diagnose.
Which makes me believe that measuring B12 should actually be made easier.
Since B12 deficiency is also related to lifestyle factors (diet, laughing gas, age, etc…) I think we should be measuring it more in everyone, not only the groups where we expect B12 deficiency. If we only measure it in these groups, statistics about who is at risk for B12 deficiency get skewed. The group of symptomatic people in which we aren’t measuring B12 might hide some B12 deficiency we aren’t seeing.
Although the title is rather negative, I’m glad it gets some attention!
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@Naveed Aslam,
Just like fasting insulin, reverse T3 also isn’t a lab value traditionally measured. fT3 (free T3) is often only measured in patients who use thyroid medication to see if the medication is working.
On the day of the blood draw, you might want to keep this in mind if you like to check the values measured!
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@Rhondine sorrell
I think they mean the GSTM1 gene. You’re missing it.
Don’t worry too much about that. A lot of people are missing it. That doesn’t mean you can’t be healthy.
It just means that lifestyle choices like avoiding smoking, avoiding alcohol… avoiding toxins in general and prioritizing foods that help with detoxification (Cruciferous vegetables and vegetables in the onion family) will be wiser lifestyle choices for you.
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Hey @Rhondine sorrell,
First of all, I’m reading what you’ve been through and I’m so sorry to hear that all this has been on your path.
IT’S. A. LOT!
For the moment, I’m going to focus on some ‘high ticket’ stuff in your labs.
Low White Blood Cells (WBC)
I can’t tell how recent your labs concerning your white & red blood cells are, but your WBC and RBC count at the time of the blood draw were pretty low. I’ll list some possible reasons why your WBC could be low. This doesn’t mean you have them, but it is good to keep some stuff in the back of your mind:Low serum levels of vitamin D (and other nutrients that are needed to produce white blood cells like zinc, vitamin A and B vitamins)
Some Infections can cause low WBC
Some medications
Thyroid conditions
Autoimmune conditions
Alcohol consumption
Low Red Blood Cells (RBC)
I’ve mentioned low RBC above. In your labs, I can see evidence of low iron. For example, most of the iron in the body is used to produce haemoglobin, the protein that transports oxygen through the body. Your labs show that you’ve got low haemoglobin.Low iron can cause:
Fatigue (even if you’ve slept 8 hours!)
Tingling sensations (neuropathy), like you are describing
Hear loss
It can influence thyroid function which can cause feelings of depression (and a low WBC remember?)
Shortness of breath
Pale skin
Poor appetite
Unusual cravings for non-nutritive substances, such as ice, dirt or starch
Cold hands and feet
Inflammation or soreness of your tongue
Brittle nails
I’m listing all these things. Perhaps you recognize some other symptoms. Did your doctors mention the low haemoglobin? And if so, did they measure your serum iron as well?
Toxicity Panel
From your DNA test, we can see your ability to detox is not the best. Does that mean you can’t be healthy? No. But in your case, you might be a bit more sensitive to toxins and a tox-free lifestyle will benefit you.
What stands out to me is that you’ve got high levels of iron in your toxicity report.
“But one paragraph ago I was low in Iron!”, I can hear you think
I know this sounds weird. It could be the moment when you took the test. Supplements can contain Iron for example. 65 supplements could contain a lot of iron. If this lab was taken after you’ve been taking the supplements, some of the measured metals & element values could become high. Therefore we need to know:
When was the toxic metals/elements panel measured compared to you taking your supplements? When was the low haemoglobin measured compared to you taking your supplements?
As you can see, labs need context. Perhaps you can Copy & Paste the next questions into a reply and answer these questions in a response:
What supplements were you taking? And what labs were drawn after taking these supplements?
You don’t need to list all the 65 supplements, just the ones you were taking.Are you on any other medications than that you mentioned?
How would you describe your diet? (Is it plant-based? How much is self-cooked vs processed? Do you eat organic? Everything that comes to mind!)
Was your gallbladder removed? (This could be a reason why your vitamin D wouldn’t come up)
When was your DUTCH test measured? On what day of your cycle?
There is more to tell about all these labs, but let’s discuss this step by step!
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@Rhondine sorrell Hey @Rhondine, to help you better, can you tell us when all your labs were taken? It will help us to know in what period the labs were taken!
